I'm excerpting the following lines from someone's post because this is how I see what The New Creation Man really is.
Quote:
Only by joining the two halves do the two become one. As two become one something NEW is born. The new thing is not either or but rather is the combination of the two and something new all together.
Amen! When Life was breathed into the dust man, this "man" was in soulish form, a living soul. He operated from the feminine realm. The feminine is the wife or womb of God. It is where the divine seed or sperma of God must be deposited in order to birth THE CHILD, The New Creation Man, which is born from the union of the feminine and the masculine, or the union of God and man (which is the bigger picture of soul and spirit). Man is not eliminated from this equation...."Let us make Man". This is not an either/or thing that God is doing. Spirit is invisible....it has no form....until we as his creation give him one. But we cannot give God a New Wine Skin to live in until the marriage is consumated, conceived, grown, and then birthed into manifestation.
"SHE (the feminine element of God) was taken out of man, (this is precisely what God did when he took out of himself a creation)
Therefore ( or consequently),
Consequently shall a man leave Mother and Father and be joined to his wife."
"God shall provide Himself a Lamb". God sent Himself as Jesus to be the male Lamb without blemish whose seed would enter into our deadened (Sara-like) womb causing us to conceive new or resurrection life.
The Lamb:
"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself."Picking up on the thought of just who the "Woman" truly is - God's wife or womb or all of mankind before they are quickened to life by being inseminated with the incorruptible seed of God to bring forth a birth.
I think it is interesting to compare what Paul said about weakenss or the weaker vessel but to hear it from this higher vantage point.
1 Pet. 3:7
In the same way you married men should live considerately with your wives, with an intelligent recognition, honoring the woman as the weaker, but realizing that you are joint heirs of the grace of life..."
2 Cor. 12:9
But He said to me, My grace - My favor and loving-kindness and mercy- are enough for you; for My strength and power are made perfect - fulfilled and completed and show themselves most effective in you weakness. Therefore I will all the more gladly glory in my weaknesses and infirmities, that the strength and power of Christ the Messiah may rest - yes, may pitch a tent over and dwell upon me!
So for the sake of Christ, I am well pleased and take pleasure in infirmities, insults, hardships, persecutions, perplexities, and distresses, for when I am weak, then am I truly strong - able, powerful in divine strength." \o/
It takes birth pangs to bring forth this son....and God honors her in this weakened process of distress knowing that she is heavy with child, pregnant with the Son of Glory, the New Creation Man.
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The following a reply from Grace:
I especially am interested in the weaker vessel idea. Some time ago I was thinking along these lines, being female myself....and the idea of a weaker vessel made me realize that if there is a weaker vessel, there must also be a weak. That would mean that the male is the weak...(DEFICIENT IN ABILITY)just as powerless to reproduce himself as the weaker vessel is..., there is no reproduction if the weaker and the weak are not joined. Which makes us interdependent on each other. I see man as the soul of God...the weaker vessel (apparatus, utensil, container).
God (as Father), without man (the soul of God) cannot reproduce himself. I never thought of God as weak...but according to the principle the Creator instituted "in the beginning," the weaker vessel is just as necessary as the weak. What do you think?
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Wow! what a neat insight Grace....God being the "weak" vessel. (metaphysically speaking, of course)
"Unless the seed falls in the ground and dies IT ABIDES ALONE!"
The Alone One, or the Weak One needed a weaker one in order to not be alone anymore!
Hallelujah, the pattern is repeated in the story of Adam and Eve and yet, again on the cross when Jesus side was riven and blood and water poured forth from his heart-womb as he was birthing the New Creation species into being.
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Grace:
Karen, it's interesting that Mary could not have given birth to Jesus if she had not been WEAK..not capable of bearing a child since she knew not a man..it took the POWER OF the HIGHEST (MOST HIGH)to overshadow her. That is exciting...we are being overshadowed by the Most High.....in our weakness...but the power of the HIGHEST is overshadowing us!!! Too many thoughts coming....I feel a tingling internally as I ponder these things.
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Loved your thought about Mary being weak too....in not knowing man.....exactly our condition too without the Overshadowing of the Highest as you said.
I have written so many times about the Most High being Posessor of Heaven and Earth, I am a regular nuisance with it, but I can see the Most High, the Possessor of Heaven coming to claim for Himself his bride, bringing about the marriage of Heaven and Earth as One.
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Wednesday, April 15, 2009
The New Species
Believe me, we have had conversations in depth on other boards how that Jesus has been made an idol of. But even if he has, I am persuaded that that water of child-like consciousness, can easily be made into the wine of my mature Christ reality....I know that by experience. We have discussed that he absolutely was a man.....he had no power whatsoever unless God anointed him. He always pointed out that it was the Father in him that did the works. He was tempted in all points like unto us. The word tells us that no man can be tempted unless he is drawn away of his own lusts and enticed. Jesus was enticed and tempted by his humanity the same as any other man, but overcame. Jesus forfeited his celestial glory and privilege to be made flesh like unto ours. He had to grow in grace and wisdom. He had to be MADE a priest and king....there was a making process involved.
BUT what Jesus came to show us was that man or mankind can make a quantum leap, a complete metamorphosis from being the hu-man or from being a hued down version of the MAN that God said He was making.
Adam was a hued down version of God's full intention, he was never in God's full image. Isn't red the lowest of vibrations in the color wheel. Doesn't Adam's name mean "red". God was just getting started with the making of his MAN when he finished with Adam.
Adam was the federal head of the hu-man race...the hued down man. All who have been born in his image are mortal...a condition that effected us all spiritually, mentally and physically.
Jesus, the historical Jesus, the man, was the Last Adam.
He came to bring an end to this hued down man species and to become the first of a BRAND NEW SPECIES, The New Creation Man. The resurrection was his quantum leap out of Adamkind!
That makes him the federal head of The New Creation Man. He has become the Father of a New Species just as Adam was of the old man. That's why Peter stood on the day of Pentecost and declared under the anointing of the spirit that Jesus had been made BOTH Christ and Lord.
And as a brother just pointed out you can no longer make a separation between what is Christ and what is Jesus. If we edit Jesus from the Christ, we will have to edit ourselves from the Christ as well.
I have diligently tried in every post that I have ever made concerning the glory that Jesus attained to, to point out that this is our calling as well. But we couldn't get there on our own...we laid our glory aside the same as Jesus did to take on flesh. We became entranced and enmeshed by the spell of matter....in need of a Savior.
When I first came out of the church system and God was teaching me about our inclusion in the fullness of Christ or Sonship and how great his love was that would reconcile all unto Himself, I started inching away from Jesus....I felt I was being more progressive just saying Christ and it would be less "offensive" to others. But one day the Lord broke my heart from ever doing that again. I wept before him in shame. When I say Jesus, it means Christ. When I say Christ, it means Jesus. This Jesus was made the head of this brand new Christ species body. He is not just a historical figure to me, although he was that, he has anointed me with the same spirit that glorified him and raised him from the dead.....this anointing is my downpayment installment of glory that is progressively bringing me up into the same glory that he attained. In spirit, in soul and in body.
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And I agree with the brother who says that Christ surrenders or subjects all to the Father but when does he do this?
"When he delivers over the kingdom to God the Father AFTER RENDERING INOPERATIVE AND ABOLISHING EVERY [OTHER] RULE AND EVERY AUTHORITY AND POWER.
FOR CHRIST MUST BE KING AND REIGN UNTIL HE HAS PUT ALL [HIS] ENEMIES UNDER HIS FEET.
The last enemy to be subdued and abolished is death. [that is death in all its forms - spirit, soul and body]
For He the Father has put all things in subjection under His [Christ's] feet. But when it says, All things are put in subjection under Christ, it is evident that He [Himself] is excepted Who does the subjecting of all things to Him. 1 Cor. 15
Christ must be King and reign in us....self has to get off the throne.....everything that would exalt itself against the Lordship of Christ in us.
Christ in us is our hope of Father-like glory....the same kind of glory that Jesus asked to be given. We will father the new heaven and the new earth as co-creators with him. I hope these few words will serve to bless his body in some way.
Love and communion in Christ,
Karen
BUT what Jesus came to show us was that man or mankind can make a quantum leap, a complete metamorphosis from being the hu-man or from being a hued down version of the MAN that God said He was making.
Adam was a hued down version of God's full intention, he was never in God's full image. Isn't red the lowest of vibrations in the color wheel. Doesn't Adam's name mean "red". God was just getting started with the making of his MAN when he finished with Adam.
Adam was the federal head of the hu-man race...the hued down man. All who have been born in his image are mortal...a condition that effected us all spiritually, mentally and physically.
Jesus, the historical Jesus, the man, was the Last Adam.
He came to bring an end to this hued down man species and to become the first of a BRAND NEW SPECIES, The New Creation Man. The resurrection was his quantum leap out of Adamkind!
That makes him the federal head of The New Creation Man. He has become the Father of a New Species just as Adam was of the old man. That's why Peter stood on the day of Pentecost and declared under the anointing of the spirit that Jesus had been made BOTH Christ and Lord.
And as a brother just pointed out you can no longer make a separation between what is Christ and what is Jesus. If we edit Jesus from the Christ, we will have to edit ourselves from the Christ as well.
I have diligently tried in every post that I have ever made concerning the glory that Jesus attained to, to point out that this is our calling as well. But we couldn't get there on our own...we laid our glory aside the same as Jesus did to take on flesh. We became entranced and enmeshed by the spell of matter....in need of a Savior.
When I first came out of the church system and God was teaching me about our inclusion in the fullness of Christ or Sonship and how great his love was that would reconcile all unto Himself, I started inching away from Jesus....I felt I was being more progressive just saying Christ and it would be less "offensive" to others. But one day the Lord broke my heart from ever doing that again. I wept before him in shame. When I say Jesus, it means Christ. When I say Christ, it means Jesus. This Jesus was made the head of this brand new Christ species body. He is not just a historical figure to me, although he was that, he has anointed me with the same spirit that glorified him and raised him from the dead.....this anointing is my downpayment installment of glory that is progressively bringing me up into the same glory that he attained. In spirit, in soul and in body.
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And I agree with the brother who says that Christ surrenders or subjects all to the Father but when does he do this?
"When he delivers over the kingdom to God the Father AFTER RENDERING INOPERATIVE AND ABOLISHING EVERY [OTHER] RULE AND EVERY AUTHORITY AND POWER.
FOR CHRIST MUST BE KING AND REIGN UNTIL HE HAS PUT ALL [HIS] ENEMIES UNDER HIS FEET.
The last enemy to be subdued and abolished is death. [that is death in all its forms - spirit, soul and body]
For He the Father has put all things in subjection under His [Christ's] feet. But when it says, All things are put in subjection under Christ, it is evident that He [Himself] is excepted Who does the subjecting of all things to Him. 1 Cor. 15
Christ must be King and reign in us....self has to get off the throne.....everything that would exalt itself against the Lordship of Christ in us.
Christ in us is our hope of Father-like glory....the same kind of glory that Jesus asked to be given. We will father the new heaven and the new earth as co-creators with him. I hope these few words will serve to bless his body in some way.
Love and communion in Christ,
Karen
When The Light Spoke
When Paul had his life changing experience with the Light on his way to Damascus this is how he relates it:
And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?
And I replied, Who are You Lord?
And He said to me, I AM JESUS, the Nazarene, whom you are persecuting.
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I thought for sure that perhaps in another translation it would have said "I am Christ" since Paul's experience was after Jesus' ascension. So I diligently looked in several other translations and every one of them said, "I am Jesus".
So Paul's very first experience with the Christ, Christ introduced himself as Jesus....Jesus, in his blazing glorified light form...now, not Jesus the man, but Jesus as Christ and Lord.
Now Paul was killing believers and having both men and women put in prison and because Jesus so identifies with his Body that he, in essence, was telling Paul that to persecute them was to be persecuting him.
Since Jesus was made BOTH Christ and Lord in his glorification, that moved him into a universal position in scope and ability - "all power both in heaven and earth has been given unto me"....."As the Father has life in Himself, so it has been given to the son to have Life in himself." That says to me, that the son has matured to a place to step into the shoes of his father and act as him.
In his ascension he was restored to his glorious equality and privilege with the Father that he had forfeited to be made flesh. That qualifies him to actually impart Life or to father a generation which exceeds just being a pretty picture or pattern about it.
Now, the reason that I am always eager to lift up Christ Jesus is because that defines for us the kind of glory that we are called to. To me that is what the high calling of God in Christ Jesus is...."to have all power both in heaven and in earth".... to know as God knows, and to be empowered to do as God does.....power to love all creation, power to bless and deliver and bring heaven into our earth and establish the kingdom of God in this earth. Thank you our Father!
And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?
And I replied, Who are You Lord?
And He said to me, I AM JESUS, the Nazarene, whom you are persecuting.
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I thought for sure that perhaps in another translation it would have said "I am Christ" since Paul's experience was after Jesus' ascension. So I diligently looked in several other translations and every one of them said, "I am Jesus".
So Paul's very first experience with the Christ, Christ introduced himself as Jesus....Jesus, in his blazing glorified light form...now, not Jesus the man, but Jesus as Christ and Lord.
Now Paul was killing believers and having both men and women put in prison and because Jesus so identifies with his Body that he, in essence, was telling Paul that to persecute them was to be persecuting him.
Since Jesus was made BOTH Christ and Lord in his glorification, that moved him into a universal position in scope and ability - "all power both in heaven and earth has been given unto me"....."As the Father has life in Himself, so it has been given to the son to have Life in himself." That says to me, that the son has matured to a place to step into the shoes of his father and act as him.
In his ascension he was restored to his glorious equality and privilege with the Father that he had forfeited to be made flesh. That qualifies him to actually impart Life or to father a generation which exceeds just being a pretty picture or pattern about it.
Now, the reason that I am always eager to lift up Christ Jesus is because that defines for us the kind of glory that we are called to. To me that is what the high calling of God in Christ Jesus is...."to have all power both in heaven and in earth".... to know as God knows, and to be empowered to do as God does.....power to love all creation, power to bless and deliver and bring heaven into our earth and establish the kingdom of God in this earth. Thank you our Father!
Saturday, April 04, 2009
Mortal vs. Immortal
Someone asked some questions about putting on immortality and if our mortal was to be incorporated in this act.
I am posting this as a new thread as we seemed to be taking on a new theme of immortality in the other one on sickness.
Just for the short answer: mortal is a word for death....death-ridden, so no, I don't believe that death will have any part in our immortal beings.
Now for anyone to truly know everything there is to know about immortality of the body (not speaking of the spirit and soul) their mortal would have to be demonstrating what Jesus body in the resurrection was capable of. Mine isn't, so I can only speak what little I know, by revelation, not by experience.
I know that there have been catchings up into this dimension....there have been many spiritual spies that have spied out the land, as it were, and came back with glowing reports. I believe it is by faith we are now beholding Him, as He is being unveiled in our understandings, for He is who I Am in these fully realized dimensions. But as bodies walking this out in the earth, I believe we are occupying [holding the vision] in this realm until that coming in fullness is realized in our earth as it is in our heaven. This is the DE-scension of Christ INTO the flesh as opposed to just coming IN us as a hope as he did in Pentecost....our hope of glory. In other words, the hope is to be realized. The Glory of the Lord, fills or floods the temple(our bodies) as it did when Solomon's temple was dedicated and no man could stand to minister. Nothing of the flesh or death-ridden man will be left standing.
Every apostle taught and looked for a greater appearing or coming of the Lord.....all these admonitons were issued AFTER his coming at Pentecost. One of them assures us that he is coming to be glorified in his saints.
His coming at Pentecost, I believe, brought to his body the realization of Christ IN YOU, our hope of glory. Jesus prior to his death and resurrection, said, that it was his Father IN HIM that did the works. He knew it was not in his flesh man where the power resided.
Prior to his resurrection, in John 17, he requests to be glorified with his Fathers very own Self which suggests that prior to this time he was not glorified, but was walking as an anointed man.
What always has thrilled my heart is that I believe that the reason that Jesus did not pour out the gift of the Holy Spirit while walking as a man, was because he was not going reproduce himself as just more human bodies to be anointed, but would anoint us from the Highest Glories and pour out of his Spirit as a foretaste and downpayment of the highest dimensions that would produce for him a spiritual heritage that would be brought up to live from this glory. Through this first installment of glory or anointing we would begin to be taught of his ways and empowered to take up our cross and follow him all the way....all the way into the full realization of immortal life, spirit, soul and body.
(will try to share more about mortal vs. immortal later)...perhaps others have more insight to share with us too.
Grace and Glory to all!
Karen
Question was posed - Do you suppose that there will come a time when some of us will experience that immortality, that glorification and not die, because the Life filling us will swallow it up?
"The life filling us will swallow it up" Amen..When you plant a seed in the earth... that seed has to die to release the life germ that it has held within itself. Just so, the seed of life, the Christ planted in us is causing our old man, or shell or husk to die, in order that the full potential of life held in this seed can bloom into full expression bringing life to not only our soul or mind but our bodies as well, as I see it.
Joyful...what do you think that the word teaches in that regard? What do you think chapter 15 in 1Cor. is teaching us?
Quote: "The sect of the Pharisees, which Paul had been part of, taught and believed in the resurrection but Paul attempts to prove it by showing that there was one who demonstrated it, namely Jesus. And he went so far as to say to the Corinthian church, if they couldn't believe this, then their faith was devoid of truth and was just empty, imaginary and fruitless.
The Saducees denied there being any resurrection and took the Greek view that all matter was evil so it was a good thing to die and get rid of this evil body so we could obtain a spiritual one.
Rom. 5:12
12 Therefore just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, ON WHICH [eph ho] all sin.
Quote:
"We were not guilty of Adam's sin, but because he was the federal head of the human family, his sins were imputed to us making us legally guilty. So we received his penalty which was death....or being born mortal before any of us sinned. Man does not sin because he is born in sin, he sins because he has death in him. It causes man to be morally weak, or sick. [this mortality, manifests in our souls or minds, and in our bodies before we are resurrected in Christ]
The point is that Adam's transgression was reversed in Christ, whose righteousness and righteous act on the cross brought life to all of creation. Both acts were done outside of ourselves, not by our will. Likewise, even as we all shared in the consequences of Adam's sin before our wills had been formed, so also do we all share in the salvation brought about by Christ's righteous act, which was done apart from our wills. Just as Adam's sin resulted in every man's death, so also Christ's righteous act resulted in every man being given life in the end.
The only caveat given in 1 Cor. 15:23 is this: "but every man in his own order." Not all will appropriate immortality at the same time.
When Adam sinned, he and his wife and children were sold to pay the debt that he could not pay. In fact, his entire estate was sold to pay his debt, and it was still insufficient to pay the debt. Jesus spoke of this in a parable in Matt. 18:25,
25 But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children AND ALL THAT HE HAD, and repayment to be made.
Jesus came as the last Adam to reverse the curse and pay the full debt that Adam could not pay. In doing so, He redeemed not only Adam, but his wife and children (descendants) and the entire estate (the creation). Everything that was lost in Adam is redeemed in Christ. Hence, 1 John 2:2 says,
2 and He Himself is the propitiation [covering] for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." Unquote
"Christ the Messiah is the first fruits, then those who are Christ's own will be resurrected at His coming.
After that comes the end (the completion) when He delivers over the kingdom to God the Father after rendering inoperative and abolishing every other rule and every authority and power.
For Christ must be King and reign until He has put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy to be subdued and abolished is death."
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The following a comment made by Grace: I hesitated to put in my two cents, but I believe the scriptures teach the truth of coming into immortality without going by way of the grave. Rather than give my opinion, I will call to mind the scriptures that, to me, are very plain. Paul said "Behold I show you a mystery (a sacred secret). We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment ( en atomos - in atoms)in the twinkling of an eye (the upward sweeping motion of the eye, meaning seeing in a higher dimension), at the last trump (aren't we hearing a message, a trumpet ? Paul said the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. HOW can this take place?)
BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MINDS.
Be ye transformed , changed (metamorphoo- that which happens to a caterpillar to turn it into a butterfly.
A powerful scripture relates to incorruptibility and immortality. 1 Cor. 15;:51-54, When this corruptible shall have put on incorruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying, Death is swallowed up in victory. That ties in with scriptures that talk about men of corrupt minds...so it seems corruption is in our minds. Be ye transformed (metamorphoo- that which happens to a caterpillar to turn it into a butterfly)
BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MINDS.
For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Jesus said at the raising of Lazarus from the dead,
Whosoever believeth in me,though he were dead,(has died) yet shall he live, and
whosoever liveth (has not died)and believeth in (into) me shall never (in no wise) die. Then he ask Martha if she believed what he said and she didn't understand. She said Yea Lord, I know that you are the Christ....) She did not comprehend what Jesus was saying, just like us today.
If death is the last enemy and Jesus defeated all our enemies, then who is going to believe that He conquered death?
Living and believing seemed to be the requirement that Jesus himself put coming into immortality. I repeat his words, "Whosoever liveth and believeth in (eis - into) me shall never die. Believeth thou this?" I ask myself, Do I believe this? I think we are afraid to believe...It has never happened except to Enoch and Elijah, why do I think it could happen to me? Why do we cry at funerals? Death has claimed another one. If we think we will be better off in some "heaven" why is death called an enemy and why are we sad at their passing?
Then we say, Bro. So and So believed in NEVER DIE and he died. Did he believe into it or did he believe the doctrine? I do not want to die and go to heaven. I want to live and see every enemy of Christ conquered in me. Hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I want to see everything we inherited from Adam canceled in me you and the total victory of our Lord Jesus Christ be manifested in a people.
Perhaps there is a time element involved, I don't know. I think that the concept of a literal heaven off somewhere in the sky was so deep rooted in us that we couldn't understand, just like Martha. But the eyes of our understanding are being opened and as we continue to hear the truth within ourselves, somebody will break that barrier. Just like when the 4 minute mile was accomplished...after everybody believing it couldn't be done, many others broke it also. Jesus conquered death...who will be next?
From what I gather from the scriptures, the barriers are in the mind. If we are transformed by the renewing of the mind, what are the barriers in the mind that keep us in corruptibility and mortality? Death was the consequence of Adam's sin, the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. One barrier is double mindedness, double vision, (if thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light). I realize that physical death is the result of living in the realm of the Adamic man. But, as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive. If the first part of that is true, why not the last part? Are we in Christ? I believe that just as I was in Adam when he sinned, I was in Christ when he conquered the whole Adamic realm. Some say there is no process...then perhaps progress is a better word.
Jesus Christ is now my life. I have no right to claim anything else. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things have passed away and all things are becoming new.
I think the following is a pretty good word on immortality, Joyfulheart....I will share the link with you if you care to read it when you have time. After all, we can't talk about immortality without talking about Jesus our pattern and what an excellent example he was, not just to us, but for us.
You know, there have been some good people that may have laid there lives down for others before, as we know that Jesus surely did for the world, for Jesus died to his heavenly glory to become flesh for it was man that was given dominion in the earth in the beginning and fell from his glory, so Jesus became man to regain the dominion and glory in this earth and to bring mankind into immortality, which would give man authority BOTH in heaven and on earth....a state from which man would never again fall. I don't see where any other cultural or spiritual teacher was able to cancel death and bring all of creation into life and immortality even though they may have been cultural spiritual teachers....they are all dead themselves.
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/coldfusion/Chapter.cfm?CID=73
The following was my response made to someone who said they believed the Bible was written primarily for just the Jews and our belief in Jesus as the only Christ fails to recognize all the other "christs" which makes Christianity exclusionary or devisive.
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I, for one don't see the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as exclusionary, but, quite the opposite, as completely inclusive. This is a Love that includes all of humanity, yea, all creation.
I see Jesus as a universal reference being, not just to the Jews, but to all mankind. And in his glorification he became a Life-giving Spirit to all....the collective consciousness of all was pierced and penetrated by the realized truth of a man that conquered death or is exempt from every kind of death in all its forms and acquired the keys of hell and death:
1 Tim 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honor and power everlasting. Amen.
John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
"In the same way that sin and death entered the world through one man, so one man's act of righteousness leads to right standing with God. So that as sin reigned in death, so grace might now reign by righteous which issues in eternal life through Jesus Christ, the, Anointed One, our Lord." Rom. 5
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"There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification." 1 Cor. 14
I believe there have been many different cultural spiritual teachers, other voices....teachers given to certain cultures that had spiritual truths to teach and followers that followed their teachings. I don't think we have to belittle whatever part many of them had to play in the plan of God, but I don't think it is a disservice to point out that they will not be able to bring you any higher than what they attained to even though they may have taught about it. You cannot give what you do not have to give.
But since this thread is about coming into physical immortality, the one that has been universally known to come into immortality and to attain to a level that exceeded his predecessors was Jesus, the Christ. He broke through all the limitations of death; spirit, soul and body.
I, personally, don't believe that Elijah or Enoch, even though they didn't see physical death, attained to the level of life and immortality that Jesus did, because:
"And so you can know and understand what is the immeasurable, unlimited, and surpassing greatness of His power and in the working of his mighty strength.
Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His own right hand in the heavenly.
Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named - above every title that can be conferred- not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and world to come.
And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme head of the church..." Eph. 1
"[But he ascended?] Now what can this, He ascended, mean but that He had previously descended from the height of heaven into the depth, the lower parts of the earth?
(The lower parts of the earth....what would be the lowest depth of our earth? "the heart is desperately wicked, above all things, who can know it? He descended into the lowest hell of man)
He who descended is the very same as He who also has ascended high above all the heavens, that He [His Presence} might fill all things, the whole universe, from the lowest to the highest." Eph. 4
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Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama died and was cremated and his ashes were divided among five kings and his relics buried and pilgrimages are made to these sites.
Lao Tzu, believed author of the Tao ti Ching lived and died about 600 BC:
"Surprisingly enough, a story from Chuang-tzu still offers us details about Lao-tzu's death. The funerals of the master are described here, with many grieving disciples."
Confucius, famous Chinese philosopher died around 479 B.C
Muhammad founder of Islam, died June 8, 632 after Christ.
Just sharing these few to make a point about only being able to give what you have attained, not to disparage them as cultural teachers.
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At this time, although I may be mistaken, I don't think that immortality of the physical comes piecemeal, in other words, in first this one, and then in that one individually. I believe this resurrection into immortality is to be a corporate event just as it was on Pentecost. Jesus' return in the spirit manifested as a corporate event on a historical day. I see that likened unto breaking the sound barrier. (the sound of a rushing, mighty wind)
Once this truth was realized by a body of people, it opened the door for all to partake of this truth. So, if that serves as a pattern, then I see the corporate coming of the Lord in fullness, redeeming us into full salvation.... spirit, soul, and body to be a historical event that this time breaks the "light" barrier. It is accomplished in a people all together at once....and this people will no longer have their light hidden under the bushel of matter....just having the treasure in an earthen vessel. This vessel will be swallowed up in the Light of God. Our mortal, dying bodies are quickened and speeded up to the frequency of light that our head, Jesus has attained. (Equal immortality unto the kind of light that no man[carnal man] can approach) \o/
Grace, I just got on line this morning and saw your question. I really can't give a specific scripture about a group happening as you inquired about, that's why I added that I may be mistaken. I just have pondered on some of these things. We know that the scriptures speak of the birth of a Manchild into this earth....which of course, implies this birth is a fullgrown matured one, a man, not a baby.
That then leads me to ponder on how does any natural birth happen. Is it in piecemeal fashion? Is one arm born at one time and then at another time a foot, until all the parts are born?...and then they get put together? Well, I do see this formation taking place but not on the outside of the womb....but on the inside, during gestation.
The womb of time, has been our growing place...our gestation while growing and being formed in Christ, but I can see how that the birth would appear to me, at least in my present understanding, to be the emergence of a fully formed, fully connected child, or in this case, a fullgrown Man/child.
Not sharing absolutes here....just some of my ponderings.
In Genesis where it says God's days begin in the darkness and end in the light. ["the evening and the morning was the first day"] I see a pattern in that. I believe all creation while being formed into the Man in God's image that he declared in the beginning was his aim, that all creation has been in formation or gestation in the womb of time. All natural life begins in the darkness of the womb prior to mother finally delivering her fully formed child out into the light of day.
As I said, just some of my ponderings. Thank you for your thoughts too. And I too, believe that immortality already dwells within us...the immortal one lives in our earthen vessels, and the promise is that the glory of the Lord will cover all the earth...all of our earthen vessel. \o/
Until there is an understanding, which is outlined in the OT about the sacrifice of the two goats and the two doves, I believe there will be a misperception about the plan of God and our part in its fulfillment.
One sacrifice died literally, the other became the "living" sacrifice, in other words, the second one does not need to die literally...that was accomplished in the 1st sacrifice. (One died for all)
Once the veil has been penetrated - once the hymen has been broken, the way is opened - sorry for being graphic, but it just fits. Jesus was the last of the one man saviors, a friend of mine likes to say, but I would carry that one step further, he was the first and the last of the "one man saviors". He died once for all, there was no more need for a literal death sacrifice. That leaves the "living sacrifice" - US! We die too, but it is while we are walking around on two feet, as the living sacrifice. We die out to the corruption and unbelief of our minds.
Just listen a moment of how the resurrected Jesus spoke to the two brothers who were on their way to Emmaus and see if any of our conversations here sound somewhat similar:
Luke 24
"And while they were conversing and discussing together, Jesus Himself caught up with them and was already accompanying them.
But their eyes were held, so that they did not recognize Him.
And He said to them, What is this discussion that you are exchanging (throwing back and forth) between you as you walk along?
And [Jesus] said to them, O foolish ones and (sluggish in mind, dull of perception) - to adhere to and trust in EVERYTHING THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN!
THEN BEGINNING WITH MOSES, AND THROUGHOUT ALL THE PROPHETS, HE WENT ON EXPLAINING AND INTERPRETING TO THEM IN ALL THE SCRIPTURES THE THINGS CONCERNING AND REFERRING TO HIMSELF.
When their eyes were opened and they (clearly) recognized Him; He vanished.
And they said to one another, Was not our heart greatly moved and burning within us while He was talking with us on the road and AS HE OPENED AND EXPLAINED TO US THE SENSE OF THE SCRIPTURES.
A little later after returning to Jerusalem and meeting up with the eleven [apostles], Jesus appeared among them again and one of the things that he reiterated again was this:
"Then He said to them, This is what I told you while I was with you, that everything which is written concerning Me in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms MUST BE FULFILLED.
Then He (thoroughly) opened up their minds to understand the Scriptures.
"Leviticus 14 and 16, the two birds used in cleansing the leper, and the two goats of the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). These two passages embody the laws regarding the two works of Christ.
As we will show, leprosy depicts our mortality, which we inherited from Adam, even as Paul says in Romans 5:12, “and so death spread to all men.” The two birds were used to cleanse lepers—that is, the two birds depict the two stages by which we are cleansed of mortality. The first bird was killed to provide a blood covering for the second bird. The first bird’s death imputed life to us, while the second bird, when released into the “field” (i.e., the world), will infuse us with inherent immortality and life.
As for the two goats in the ritual of the Day of Atonement, these deal not with the death question, but rather the sin question. Again, there are two stages by which our sin is eradicated. The first goat covered our sin; the second will remove it. We will show that the first goat (Christ) was killed in order to atone for (cover) our sin by His blood. The second goat was different in that it removed all sin to a land not inhabited. This shows us that the second coming of Christ will accomplish the removal of sin from our bodies." [my comment: this is the birth of the Manchild in us, the full-measure anointing - this is the child that is born in us through the union of a renewed soul and spirit as all corruption or death in our minds is put under foot.]
Now for all those who will say that we are already complete IN HIM...yes, absolutely, but do we not see that he desires to be made complete IN US as well.
I am posting this as a new thread as we seemed to be taking on a new theme of immortality in the other one on sickness.
Just for the short answer: mortal is a word for death....death-ridden, so no, I don't believe that death will have any part in our immortal beings.
Now for anyone to truly know everything there is to know about immortality of the body (not speaking of the spirit and soul) their mortal would have to be demonstrating what Jesus body in the resurrection was capable of. Mine isn't, so I can only speak what little I know, by revelation, not by experience.
I know that there have been catchings up into this dimension....there have been many spiritual spies that have spied out the land, as it were, and came back with glowing reports. I believe it is by faith we are now beholding Him, as He is being unveiled in our understandings, for He is who I Am in these fully realized dimensions. But as bodies walking this out in the earth, I believe we are occupying [holding the vision] in this realm until that coming in fullness is realized in our earth as it is in our heaven. This is the DE-scension of Christ INTO the flesh as opposed to just coming IN us as a hope as he did in Pentecost....our hope of glory. In other words, the hope is to be realized. The Glory of the Lord, fills or floods the temple(our bodies) as it did when Solomon's temple was dedicated and no man could stand to minister. Nothing of the flesh or death-ridden man will be left standing.
Every apostle taught and looked for a greater appearing or coming of the Lord.....all these admonitons were issued AFTER his coming at Pentecost. One of them assures us that he is coming to be glorified in his saints.
His coming at Pentecost, I believe, brought to his body the realization of Christ IN YOU, our hope of glory. Jesus prior to his death and resurrection, said, that it was his Father IN HIM that did the works. He knew it was not in his flesh man where the power resided.
Prior to his resurrection, in John 17, he requests to be glorified with his Fathers very own Self which suggests that prior to this time he was not glorified, but was walking as an anointed man.
What always has thrilled my heart is that I believe that the reason that Jesus did not pour out the gift of the Holy Spirit while walking as a man, was because he was not going reproduce himself as just more human bodies to be anointed, but would anoint us from the Highest Glories and pour out of his Spirit as a foretaste and downpayment of the highest dimensions that would produce for him a spiritual heritage that would be brought up to live from this glory. Through this first installment of glory or anointing we would begin to be taught of his ways and empowered to take up our cross and follow him all the way....all the way into the full realization of immortal life, spirit, soul and body.
(will try to share more about mortal vs. immortal later)...perhaps others have more insight to share with us too.
Grace and Glory to all!
Karen
Question was posed - Do you suppose that there will come a time when some of us will experience that immortality, that glorification and not die, because the Life filling us will swallow it up?
"The life filling us will swallow it up" Amen..When you plant a seed in the earth... that seed has to die to release the life germ that it has held within itself. Just so, the seed of life, the Christ planted in us is causing our old man, or shell or husk to die, in order that the full potential of life held in this seed can bloom into full expression bringing life to not only our soul or mind but our bodies as well, as I see it.
Joyful...what do you think that the word teaches in that regard? What do you think chapter 15 in 1Cor. is teaching us?
Quote: "The sect of the Pharisees, which Paul had been part of, taught and believed in the resurrection but Paul attempts to prove it by showing that there was one who demonstrated it, namely Jesus. And he went so far as to say to the Corinthian church, if they couldn't believe this, then their faith was devoid of truth and was just empty, imaginary and fruitless.
The Saducees denied there being any resurrection and took the Greek view that all matter was evil so it was a good thing to die and get rid of this evil body so we could obtain a spiritual one.
Rom. 5:12
12 Therefore just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, ON WHICH [eph ho] all sin.
Quote:
"We were not guilty of Adam's sin, but because he was the federal head of the human family, his sins were imputed to us making us legally guilty. So we received his penalty which was death....or being born mortal before any of us sinned. Man does not sin because he is born in sin, he sins because he has death in him. It causes man to be morally weak, or sick. [this mortality, manifests in our souls or minds, and in our bodies before we are resurrected in Christ]
The point is that Adam's transgression was reversed in Christ, whose righteousness and righteous act on the cross brought life to all of creation. Both acts were done outside of ourselves, not by our will. Likewise, even as we all shared in the consequences of Adam's sin before our wills had been formed, so also do we all share in the salvation brought about by Christ's righteous act, which was done apart from our wills. Just as Adam's sin resulted in every man's death, so also Christ's righteous act resulted in every man being given life in the end.
The only caveat given in 1 Cor. 15:23 is this: "but every man in his own order." Not all will appropriate immortality at the same time.
When Adam sinned, he and his wife and children were sold to pay the debt that he could not pay. In fact, his entire estate was sold to pay his debt, and it was still insufficient to pay the debt. Jesus spoke of this in a parable in Matt. 18:25,
25 But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children AND ALL THAT HE HAD, and repayment to be made.
Jesus came as the last Adam to reverse the curse and pay the full debt that Adam could not pay. In doing so, He redeemed not only Adam, but his wife and children (descendants) and the entire estate (the creation). Everything that was lost in Adam is redeemed in Christ. Hence, 1 John 2:2 says,
2 and He Himself is the propitiation [covering] for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." Unquote
"Christ the Messiah is the first fruits, then those who are Christ's own will be resurrected at His coming.
After that comes the end (the completion) when He delivers over the kingdom to God the Father after rendering inoperative and abolishing every other rule and every authority and power.
For Christ must be King and reign until He has put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy to be subdued and abolished is death."
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The following a comment made by Grace: I hesitated to put in my two cents, but I believe the scriptures teach the truth of coming into immortality without going by way of the grave. Rather than give my opinion, I will call to mind the scriptures that, to me, are very plain. Paul said "Behold I show you a mystery (a sacred secret). We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment ( en atomos - in atoms)in the twinkling of an eye (the upward sweeping motion of the eye, meaning seeing in a higher dimension), at the last trump (aren't we hearing a message, a trumpet ? Paul said the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. HOW can this take place?)
BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MINDS.
Be ye transformed , changed (metamorphoo- that which happens to a caterpillar to turn it into a butterfly.
A powerful scripture relates to incorruptibility and immortality. 1 Cor. 15;:51-54, When this corruptible shall have put on incorruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying, Death is swallowed up in victory. That ties in with scriptures that talk about men of corrupt minds...so it seems corruption is in our minds. Be ye transformed (metamorphoo- that which happens to a caterpillar to turn it into a butterfly)
BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MINDS.
For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Jesus said at the raising of Lazarus from the dead,
Whosoever believeth in me,though he were dead,(has died) yet shall he live, and
whosoever liveth (has not died)and believeth in (into) me shall never (in no wise) die. Then he ask Martha if she believed what he said and she didn't understand. She said Yea Lord, I know that you are the Christ....) She did not comprehend what Jesus was saying, just like us today.
If death is the last enemy and Jesus defeated all our enemies, then who is going to believe that He conquered death?
Living and believing seemed to be the requirement that Jesus himself put coming into immortality. I repeat his words, "Whosoever liveth and believeth in (eis - into) me shall never die. Believeth thou this?" I ask myself, Do I believe this? I think we are afraid to believe...It has never happened except to Enoch and Elijah, why do I think it could happen to me? Why do we cry at funerals? Death has claimed another one. If we think we will be better off in some "heaven" why is death called an enemy and why are we sad at their passing?
Then we say, Bro. So and So believed in NEVER DIE and he died. Did he believe into it or did he believe the doctrine? I do not want to die and go to heaven. I want to live and see every enemy of Christ conquered in me. Hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I want to see everything we inherited from Adam canceled in me you and the total victory of our Lord Jesus Christ be manifested in a people.
Perhaps there is a time element involved, I don't know. I think that the concept of a literal heaven off somewhere in the sky was so deep rooted in us that we couldn't understand, just like Martha. But the eyes of our understanding are being opened and as we continue to hear the truth within ourselves, somebody will break that barrier. Just like when the 4 minute mile was accomplished...after everybody believing it couldn't be done, many others broke it also. Jesus conquered death...who will be next?
From what I gather from the scriptures, the barriers are in the mind. If we are transformed by the renewing of the mind, what are the barriers in the mind that keep us in corruptibility and mortality? Death was the consequence of Adam's sin, the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. One barrier is double mindedness, double vision, (if thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light). I realize that physical death is the result of living in the realm of the Adamic man. But, as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive. If the first part of that is true, why not the last part? Are we in Christ? I believe that just as I was in Adam when he sinned, I was in Christ when he conquered the whole Adamic realm. Some say there is no process...then perhaps progress is a better word.
Jesus Christ is now my life. I have no right to claim anything else. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things have passed away and all things are becoming new.
I think the following is a pretty good word on immortality, Joyfulheart....I will share the link with you if you care to read it when you have time. After all, we can't talk about immortality without talking about Jesus our pattern and what an excellent example he was, not just to us, but for us.
You know, there have been some good people that may have laid there lives down for others before, as we know that Jesus surely did for the world, for Jesus died to his heavenly glory to become flesh for it was man that was given dominion in the earth in the beginning and fell from his glory, so Jesus became man to regain the dominion and glory in this earth and to bring mankind into immortality, which would give man authority BOTH in heaven and on earth....a state from which man would never again fall. I don't see where any other cultural or spiritual teacher was able to cancel death and bring all of creation into life and immortality even though they may have been cultural spiritual teachers....they are all dead themselves.
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/coldfusion/Chapter.cfm?CID=73
The following was my response made to someone who said they believed the Bible was written primarily for just the Jews and our belief in Jesus as the only Christ fails to recognize all the other "christs" which makes Christianity exclusionary or devisive.
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I, for one don't see the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as exclusionary, but, quite the opposite, as completely inclusive. This is a Love that includes all of humanity, yea, all creation.
I see Jesus as a universal reference being, not just to the Jews, but to all mankind. And in his glorification he became a Life-giving Spirit to all....the collective consciousness of all was pierced and penetrated by the realized truth of a man that conquered death or is exempt from every kind of death in all its forms and acquired the keys of hell and death:
1 Tim 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honor and power everlasting. Amen.
John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
"In the same way that sin and death entered the world through one man, so one man's act of righteousness leads to right standing with God. So that as sin reigned in death, so grace might now reign by righteous which issues in eternal life through Jesus Christ, the, Anointed One, our Lord." Rom. 5
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"There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification." 1 Cor. 14
I believe there have been many different cultural spiritual teachers, other voices....teachers given to certain cultures that had spiritual truths to teach and followers that followed their teachings. I don't think we have to belittle whatever part many of them had to play in the plan of God, but I don't think it is a disservice to point out that they will not be able to bring you any higher than what they attained to even though they may have taught about it. You cannot give what you do not have to give.
But since this thread is about coming into physical immortality, the one that has been universally known to come into immortality and to attain to a level that exceeded his predecessors was Jesus, the Christ. He broke through all the limitations of death; spirit, soul and body.
I, personally, don't believe that Elijah or Enoch, even though they didn't see physical death, attained to the level of life and immortality that Jesus did, because:
"And so you can know and understand what is the immeasurable, unlimited, and surpassing greatness of His power and in the working of his mighty strength.
Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His own right hand in the heavenly.
Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named - above every title that can be conferred- not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and world to come.
And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme head of the church..." Eph. 1
"[But he ascended?] Now what can this, He ascended, mean but that He had previously descended from the height of heaven into the depth, the lower parts of the earth?
(The lower parts of the earth....what would be the lowest depth of our earth? "the heart is desperately wicked, above all things, who can know it? He descended into the lowest hell of man)
He who descended is the very same as He who also has ascended high above all the heavens, that He [His Presence} might fill all things, the whole universe, from the lowest to the highest." Eph. 4
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Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama died and was cremated and his ashes were divided among five kings and his relics buried and pilgrimages are made to these sites.
Lao Tzu, believed author of the Tao ti Ching lived and died about 600 BC:
"Surprisingly enough, a story from Chuang-tzu still offers us details about Lao-tzu's death. The funerals of the master are described here, with many grieving disciples."
Confucius, famous Chinese philosopher died around 479 B.C
Muhammad founder of Islam, died June 8, 632 after Christ.
Just sharing these few to make a point about only being able to give what you have attained, not to disparage them as cultural teachers.
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At this time, although I may be mistaken, I don't think that immortality of the physical comes piecemeal, in other words, in first this one, and then in that one individually. I believe this resurrection into immortality is to be a corporate event just as it was on Pentecost. Jesus' return in the spirit manifested as a corporate event on a historical day. I see that likened unto breaking the sound barrier. (the sound of a rushing, mighty wind)
Once this truth was realized by a body of people, it opened the door for all to partake of this truth. So, if that serves as a pattern, then I see the corporate coming of the Lord in fullness, redeeming us into full salvation.... spirit, soul, and body to be a historical event that this time breaks the "light" barrier. It is accomplished in a people all together at once....and this people will no longer have their light hidden under the bushel of matter....just having the treasure in an earthen vessel. This vessel will be swallowed up in the Light of God. Our mortal, dying bodies are quickened and speeded up to the frequency of light that our head, Jesus has attained. (Equal immortality unto the kind of light that no man[carnal man] can approach) \o/
Grace, I just got on line this morning and saw your question. I really can't give a specific scripture about a group happening as you inquired about, that's why I added that I may be mistaken. I just have pondered on some of these things. We know that the scriptures speak of the birth of a Manchild into this earth....which of course, implies this birth is a fullgrown matured one, a man, not a baby.
That then leads me to ponder on how does any natural birth happen. Is it in piecemeal fashion? Is one arm born at one time and then at another time a foot, until all the parts are born?...and then they get put together? Well, I do see this formation taking place but not on the outside of the womb....but on the inside, during gestation.
The womb of time, has been our growing place...our gestation while growing and being formed in Christ, but I can see how that the birth would appear to me, at least in my present understanding, to be the emergence of a fully formed, fully connected child, or in this case, a fullgrown Man/child.
Not sharing absolutes here....just some of my ponderings.
In Genesis where it says God's days begin in the darkness and end in the light. ["the evening and the morning was the first day"] I see a pattern in that. I believe all creation while being formed into the Man in God's image that he declared in the beginning was his aim, that all creation has been in formation or gestation in the womb of time. All natural life begins in the darkness of the womb prior to mother finally delivering her fully formed child out into the light of day.
As I said, just some of my ponderings. Thank you for your thoughts too. And I too, believe that immortality already dwells within us...the immortal one lives in our earthen vessels, and the promise is that the glory of the Lord will cover all the earth...all of our earthen vessel. \o/
Until there is an understanding, which is outlined in the OT about the sacrifice of the two goats and the two doves, I believe there will be a misperception about the plan of God and our part in its fulfillment.
One sacrifice died literally, the other became the "living" sacrifice, in other words, the second one does not need to die literally...that was accomplished in the 1st sacrifice. (One died for all)
Once the veil has been penetrated - once the hymen has been broken, the way is opened - sorry for being graphic, but it just fits. Jesus was the last of the one man saviors, a friend of mine likes to say, but I would carry that one step further, he was the first and the last of the "one man saviors". He died once for all, there was no more need for a literal death sacrifice. That leaves the "living sacrifice" - US! We die too, but it is while we are walking around on two feet, as the living sacrifice. We die out to the corruption and unbelief of our minds.
Just listen a moment of how the resurrected Jesus spoke to the two brothers who were on their way to Emmaus and see if any of our conversations here sound somewhat similar:
Luke 24
"And while they were conversing and discussing together, Jesus Himself caught up with them and was already accompanying them.
But their eyes were held, so that they did not recognize Him.
And He said to them, What is this discussion that you are exchanging (throwing back and forth) between you as you walk along?
And [Jesus] said to them, O foolish ones and (sluggish in mind, dull of perception) - to adhere to and trust in EVERYTHING THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN!
THEN BEGINNING WITH MOSES, AND THROUGHOUT ALL THE PROPHETS, HE WENT ON EXPLAINING AND INTERPRETING TO THEM IN ALL THE SCRIPTURES THE THINGS CONCERNING AND REFERRING TO HIMSELF.
When their eyes were opened and they (clearly) recognized Him; He vanished.
And they said to one another, Was not our heart greatly moved and burning within us while He was talking with us on the road and AS HE OPENED AND EXPLAINED TO US THE SENSE OF THE SCRIPTURES.
A little later after returning to Jerusalem and meeting up with the eleven [apostles], Jesus appeared among them again and one of the things that he reiterated again was this:
"Then He said to them, This is what I told you while I was with you, that everything which is written concerning Me in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms MUST BE FULFILLED.
Then He (thoroughly) opened up their minds to understand the Scriptures.
"Leviticus 14 and 16, the two birds used in cleansing the leper, and the two goats of the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). These two passages embody the laws regarding the two works of Christ.
As we will show, leprosy depicts our mortality, which we inherited from Adam, even as Paul says in Romans 5:12, “and so death spread to all men.” The two birds were used to cleanse lepers—that is, the two birds depict the two stages by which we are cleansed of mortality. The first bird was killed to provide a blood covering for the second bird. The first bird’s death imputed life to us, while the second bird, when released into the “field” (i.e., the world), will infuse us with inherent immortality and life.
As for the two goats in the ritual of the Day of Atonement, these deal not with the death question, but rather the sin question. Again, there are two stages by which our sin is eradicated. The first goat covered our sin; the second will remove it. We will show that the first goat (Christ) was killed in order to atone for (cover) our sin by His blood. The second goat was different in that it removed all sin to a land not inhabited. This shows us that the second coming of Christ will accomplish the removal of sin from our bodies." [my comment: this is the birth of the Manchild in us, the full-measure anointing - this is the child that is born in us through the union of a renewed soul and spirit as all corruption or death in our minds is put under foot.]
Now for all those who will say that we are already complete IN HIM...yes, absolutely, but do we not see that he desires to be made complete IN US as well.
The Magnificent Math
by Bonnie Gaunt
from Jesus Christ: The Number of His Name
There is another aspect of the City of God that is described in Revelation as the New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven. The picture is of a glorious kingdom that comes down and engulfs the whole earth in one harmonious whole, both heavenly and earthly. The Apostle John described this New Jerusalem as The Bride, the completed company of the saints of God, who recieve their new married name, "And I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the City of my God, the New Jerusalem." Rev. 3:12
The gematria of this text is, 10656.
10656 = And I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the City of my God, the New Jerusalem.
"Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb. And he carried me away in the spirit to a mountain great and high and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. Ity had a grea, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the name of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Rev. 21: 9-14
Thus the city is described as having twelve gates, bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. And it had twelve foundations, bearing the names of the twelve apostles. In Revelation 7 is described a Lamb standing on Mount Zion and with him were 12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel. When we add the gematria for the names of the twelve tribes listed there, then multiply by 12,000, the total becomes 10,656. And when we add the gematria for the names of the twelve apostles, they also total 10, 656. It carries us far beyond the possibility of coincidence. That number was planned from the beginning to represent the completed work of God.
The names of the twelve tribes of Israel, as listed in Rev. 7, are as follows:
Judah = 485
Rueben= 630
Gad = 8
Asher = 309
Nepthalim = 650
Manasses = 700
Simeon = 1495
Levi = 445
Issachar = 112
Zebulon = 1360
Joseph = 1518
Benjamin = 168
____
8880
There has been "no cutting and fitting" to make the numbers work. The names, as shown above are the way in which they are spelled in the a Thayer Greek Lexicon. The total, 10656 represents the completed work of God, the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God and engulfing the whole world. (my comment, and also our individual world of spirit, soul and body)
The city not only had twelve gates, bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, just like Ezekiel's city, but it also had twelve foundations, bearing the names of the twelve apostles. The gematria of their names also adds to 10656. This amazing fact carries us far beyond the realm of coincidence and into the realm of the magnificient works of God.
Peter = 755
Andrew = 361
James = 1103
John = 1119
Philip = 980
Nathanael = 150
Levi = 445
Thomas = 1050
James
(son of Alpheus) = 2115
Labbaeus
(Thaddeus) = 320
Simon
the Canannite = 1573
Judas = 685
____
10656
by Bonnie Gaunt
from Beginnings, the Sacred Design
Each of the colors of white light are determined by the length of the light wave. The units commonly used for this measurement are the millimicron, which equals one millionth of a millimeter; and the Angstrom unit (A.U.), which is one ten millionth of a millimeter. In the table below I have converted these to inches.
Millimicron A.U. Inch
Red 710 7100 .00000284
Orange 620 6200 .00000248
Yellow 570 5700 .00000228
Green 520 5200 .00000208
Blue 470 4700 .00000188
Violet 410 4100 .00000164
_________
aggregate .00001320
These numbers are derived from the center of each color range, giving the truest color.
When these colors are combined in the precisely proper amounts, all apparent color disappears, and the result is white. When all the lengths of the light waves are added, the aggregate is .00001320 of an inch. This number 132 is the addition of the letter-numbers for the word white in Hebrew. It is a number that is basic to the number code of the Creator, as we shall see in the next chapter.
The visible white light from the Sun is the means of all life on Earth. It beautifully represents the Elohim, the Creator. And not surprisingly its spectrum of color bears the numbers of his name.
RED .00000284
284 God, (Theos)
2840 The God of our fathers (Acts 3:13)
2840 I form the light, I create darkness; I make
peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these
things. (Isa. 45:7)
ORANGE .00000248
248 The image of God (Genesis 1:27)
YELLOW .00000228
228 The Lord God Most High
228 Firstborn (Psa. 89:27)
GREEN .00000208
208 The Most High (one Gk. spelling)
BLUE .00000188
188 The Beauty of Jehovah
1880 The Most High (another Gk. spelling)
VIOLET .00000164
164 God the Great King
The Sun, the source of light, energy on Earth, aptly represents the true source of life, the Elohim. The solar number 864, is also the number for God, 864. The New Jerusalem also bears the solar number.
864,000 miles - the diameter of the Sun
864 God
864 Jerusalem
864 The word of the Lord from Jerusalem
(Micah 4:2)
If we were to enclose the Sun within a cube, as the design of the New Jerusalem shows, the perimeter of the square would be 3,456,000 miles. The number 3,456 is the gematria of the Old and the New Testaments, both by addition and multiplication shows the all-inclusive completness - the ultimate magnitude - of all the works of God, from the beginning to the fullness of the New Beginning.
The sum of the numbers 3+4+5+6 is 18, 1 & 8 - the numbers of beginning and new beginning. The multiplication of the digits is 3x4x5x6 is 3600. The circle has always been defined as 360 degrees. This magnificent circle, representing all the works of the beginning nd the new beginning, multiplies to 144(12 squared)
144 circle (Gk.)
The Universe, as we know it, began about 15 billion years ago from a singularity. But the true Singularity that preceded it is the One who bears the number 1 - the Beginner, the Designer. I stand in awe of the beauty of the Design!
I just received the two books that I mentioned above by Bonnie Gaunt (from Amazon), so I have not read them all yet, but have perused some of the upcoming material, such as, the Golden Proportion which I believe is also called the Golden Mean, and the The Grand Octave, how that the musical scale is a picture of the days of creation, and the 8th note begins the scale all over again, but at a higher sound or new beginning. Then one of the books covers the other two witnesses in the earth (besides Solomon's temple), the Great Pyramid, and Stonehenge. The Bible in Isaiah mentions the "stone witness" at the border of Egypt. Then Jeremiah was known to travel to the British Isles and he mentions the signs and wonders that were in Egypt and "among other men." These three earthly witnesses all intricately bear the number of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Hallelujah, and if his name is there, you can find yours there too!
**********************
Of all the feasts and celebrations that God gave to ancient Israel, the Feast of Tabernacles was the only one that had an octave.
By the end of the seventh day, the joy and excitement of the people reached its climax, but a hush fell over the crowds gathered in the streets, as the choir of the Levites began to sing the Hallel (consisting of Psa. 113 through 118), finishing with the song of thanks to God for his salvation:
"Open for me the gates of righteousness; I will enter and give thanks to the Lord. This is the gate of the Lord through which the righteous may enter. I will give you thank, for you answered me; you have become my salvation....This is the day the Lord has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it."
Before the sun began to set, the people who had been living in booths for seven days, began to return to their homes and prepare for the feast of the great 8th day. It was now 186 days since the first pilgrim festival of their year, the Passover. Their yearly festivals were coming to a close. There was one more day, yet to be celebrated - the feast of the great 8th day. It was sometimes called The Day of Conclusion, (which adds up to 816).
The interplay of the numbers 1, 6 and 8 form an intergral part of this final festival of the year. The counting of the days from Passover to the end of the seventh day of the Feast of Tabernacles was 186 days. The seventh day was called, The Last Day of the Feast of Tabernalces, and its letter-numbers add to 681. This interplay of numbers is not unusual in the gematria of the scriptures. Numbers are often reversed or arranged in a different order, thus here, the number 186 and 681 are simply a reversal. Just as the Hebrew text reads from right to left, and the Greek text reads from left to right, so the numbers can also read either way, and are so used many times in scriptures.
Jesus, the Passover Lamb
died on Nisan 14 on Calvary,
which is called Golgotha
v
v
v 186 days (inclusive)
v
v
v
End of 7th day and
beginning of the
8th day of the Feast
of Tabernacles
301= Calvary
301= Lambs
301= He is the Rock
301= Lampstand
301x.618(golden proportion)=186
186= Golgotha
186= It is finished (Rev. 16:17)
186= And there shall be no more curse (Rev.22:3)
186,000 mps, speed of light
**************************
The anagrams of 186 and the beginning of the
Great Eighth Day
186,000 mps, Speed of Light
186= It is finished (Rev. 16:17)
186= And there shall be no more curse
186= Forever (Isa. 64:4)
186= According to His image, (Gen. 5:3)(By the
beginningof the Great 8th Day man will once
again be in the image of God, just as Adam
was before he sinned)
681= The Last Day of the Feast of Tabernacles
681= Perfect (complete)
816= The Day of Conclusion (8th Day of the Feast
of Tabernacles)
816= His Dominion
861=Eternity
861= Very early in the morning (the morning of that
Great 8th Day)
168= In His Image (Gen. 1:27)(Man will once again
be in His image by the beginning of the Great
8th Day)
1680= Christ
10608= And he showed me a pure river of water of
life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the
throne of God and of the Lamb. (Rev. 22:1) A
picture of the the blessings of life in the Great
8th Day.
.618 is the Golden Proportion
618= The Lord shall be King over all the earth
(Zec. 14:9)
from Jesus Christ: The Number of His Name
There is another aspect of the City of God that is described in Revelation as the New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven. The picture is of a glorious kingdom that comes down and engulfs the whole earth in one harmonious whole, both heavenly and earthly. The Apostle John described this New Jerusalem as The Bride, the completed company of the saints of God, who recieve their new married name, "And I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the City of my God, the New Jerusalem." Rev. 3:12
The gematria of this text is, 10656.
10656 = And I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the City of my God, the New Jerusalem.
"Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb. And he carried me away in the spirit to a mountain great and high and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. Ity had a grea, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the name of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Rev. 21: 9-14
Thus the city is described as having twelve gates, bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. And it had twelve foundations, bearing the names of the twelve apostles. In Revelation 7 is described a Lamb standing on Mount Zion and with him were 12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel. When we add the gematria for the names of the twelve tribes listed there, then multiply by 12,000, the total becomes 10,656. And when we add the gematria for the names of the twelve apostles, they also total 10, 656. It carries us far beyond the possibility of coincidence. That number was planned from the beginning to represent the completed work of God.
The names of the twelve tribes of Israel, as listed in Rev. 7, are as follows:
Judah = 485
Rueben= 630
Gad = 8
Asher = 309
Nepthalim = 650
Manasses = 700
Simeon = 1495
Levi = 445
Issachar = 112
Zebulon = 1360
Joseph = 1518
Benjamin = 168
____
8880
There has been "no cutting and fitting" to make the numbers work. The names, as shown above are the way in which they are spelled in the a Thayer Greek Lexicon. The total, 10656 represents the completed work of God, the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God and engulfing the whole world. (my comment, and also our individual world of spirit, soul and body)
The city not only had twelve gates, bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, just like Ezekiel's city, but it also had twelve foundations, bearing the names of the twelve apostles. The gematria of their names also adds to 10656. This amazing fact carries us far beyond the realm of coincidence and into the realm of the magnificient works of God.
Peter = 755
Andrew = 361
James = 1103
John = 1119
Philip = 980
Nathanael = 150
Levi = 445
Thomas = 1050
James
(son of Alpheus) = 2115
Labbaeus
(Thaddeus) = 320
Simon
the Canannite = 1573
Judas = 685
____
10656
by Bonnie Gaunt
from Beginnings, the Sacred Design
Each of the colors of white light are determined by the length of the light wave. The units commonly used for this measurement are the millimicron, which equals one millionth of a millimeter; and the Angstrom unit (A.U.), which is one ten millionth of a millimeter. In the table below I have converted these to inches.
Millimicron A.U. Inch
Red 710 7100 .00000284
Orange 620 6200 .00000248
Yellow 570 5700 .00000228
Green 520 5200 .00000208
Blue 470 4700 .00000188
Violet 410 4100 .00000164
_________
aggregate .00001320
These numbers are derived from the center of each color range, giving the truest color.
When these colors are combined in the precisely proper amounts, all apparent color disappears, and the result is white. When all the lengths of the light waves are added, the aggregate is .00001320 of an inch. This number 132 is the addition of the letter-numbers for the word white in Hebrew. It is a number that is basic to the number code of the Creator, as we shall see in the next chapter.
The visible white light from the Sun is the means of all life on Earth. It beautifully represents the Elohim, the Creator. And not surprisingly its spectrum of color bears the numbers of his name.
RED .00000284
284 God, (Theos)
2840 The God of our fathers (Acts 3:13)
2840 I form the light, I create darkness; I make
peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these
things. (Isa. 45:7)
ORANGE .00000248
248 The image of God (Genesis 1:27)
YELLOW .00000228
228 The Lord God Most High
228 Firstborn (Psa. 89:27)
GREEN .00000208
208 The Most High (one Gk. spelling)
BLUE .00000188
188 The Beauty of Jehovah
1880 The Most High (another Gk. spelling)
VIOLET .00000164
164 God the Great King
The Sun, the source of light, energy on Earth, aptly represents the true source of life, the Elohim. The solar number 864, is also the number for God, 864. The New Jerusalem also bears the solar number.
864,000 miles - the diameter of the Sun
864 God
864 Jerusalem
864 The word of the Lord from Jerusalem
(Micah 4:2)
If we were to enclose the Sun within a cube, as the design of the New Jerusalem shows, the perimeter of the square would be 3,456,000 miles. The number 3,456 is the gematria of the Old and the New Testaments, both by addition and multiplication shows the all-inclusive completness - the ultimate magnitude - of all the works of God, from the beginning to the fullness of the New Beginning.
The sum of the numbers 3+4+5+6 is 18, 1 & 8 - the numbers of beginning and new beginning. The multiplication of the digits is 3x4x5x6 is 3600. The circle has always been defined as 360 degrees. This magnificent circle, representing all the works of the beginning nd the new beginning, multiplies to 144(12 squared)
144 circle (Gk.)
The Universe, as we know it, began about 15 billion years ago from a singularity. But the true Singularity that preceded it is the One who bears the number 1 - the Beginner, the Designer. I stand in awe of the beauty of the Design!
I just received the two books that I mentioned above by Bonnie Gaunt (from Amazon), so I have not read them all yet, but have perused some of the upcoming material, such as, the Golden Proportion which I believe is also called the Golden Mean, and the The Grand Octave, how that the musical scale is a picture of the days of creation, and the 8th note begins the scale all over again, but at a higher sound or new beginning. Then one of the books covers the other two witnesses in the earth (besides Solomon's temple), the Great Pyramid, and Stonehenge. The Bible in Isaiah mentions the "stone witness" at the border of Egypt. Then Jeremiah was known to travel to the British Isles and he mentions the signs and wonders that were in Egypt and "among other men." These three earthly witnesses all intricately bear the number of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Hallelujah, and if his name is there, you can find yours there too!
**********************
Of all the feasts and celebrations that God gave to ancient Israel, the Feast of Tabernacles was the only one that had an octave.
By the end of the seventh day, the joy and excitement of the people reached its climax, but a hush fell over the crowds gathered in the streets, as the choir of the Levites began to sing the Hallel (consisting of Psa. 113 through 118), finishing with the song of thanks to God for his salvation:
"Open for me the gates of righteousness; I will enter and give thanks to the Lord. This is the gate of the Lord through which the righteous may enter. I will give you thank, for you answered me; you have become my salvation....This is the day the Lord has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it."
Before the sun began to set, the people who had been living in booths for seven days, began to return to their homes and prepare for the feast of the great 8th day. It was now 186 days since the first pilgrim festival of their year, the Passover. Their yearly festivals were coming to a close. There was one more day, yet to be celebrated - the feast of the great 8th day. It was sometimes called The Day of Conclusion, (which adds up to 816).
The interplay of the numbers 1, 6 and 8 form an intergral part of this final festival of the year. The counting of the days from Passover to the end of the seventh day of the Feast of Tabernacles was 186 days. The seventh day was called, The Last Day of the Feast of Tabernalces, and its letter-numbers add to 681. This interplay of numbers is not unusual in the gematria of the scriptures. Numbers are often reversed or arranged in a different order, thus here, the number 186 and 681 are simply a reversal. Just as the Hebrew text reads from right to left, and the Greek text reads from left to right, so the numbers can also read either way, and are so used many times in scriptures.
Jesus, the Passover Lamb
died on Nisan 14 on Calvary,
which is called Golgotha
v
v
v 186 days (inclusive)
v
v
v
End of 7th day and
beginning of the
8th day of the Feast
of Tabernacles
301= Calvary
301= Lambs
301= He is the Rock
301= Lampstand
301x.618(golden proportion)=186
186= Golgotha
186= It is finished (Rev. 16:17)
186= And there shall be no more curse (Rev.22:3)
186,000 mps, speed of light
**************************
The anagrams of 186 and the beginning of the
Great Eighth Day
186,000 mps, Speed of Light
186= It is finished (Rev. 16:17)
186= And there shall be no more curse
186= Forever (Isa. 64:4)
186= According to His image, (Gen. 5:3)(By the
beginningof the Great 8th Day man will once
again be in the image of God, just as Adam
was before he sinned)
681= The Last Day of the Feast of Tabernacles
681= Perfect (complete)
816= The Day of Conclusion (8th Day of the Feast
of Tabernacles)
816= His Dominion
861=Eternity
861= Very early in the morning (the morning of that
Great 8th Day)
168= In His Image (Gen. 1:27)(Man will once again
be in His image by the beginning of the Great
8th Day)
1680= Christ
10608= And he showed me a pure river of water of
life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the
throne of God and of the Lamb. (Rev. 22:1) A
picture of the the blessings of life in the Great
8th Day.
.618 is the Golden Proportion
618= The Lord shall be King over all the earth
(Zec. 14:9)
The Clown Chakra
The Clown scientists have found that all our problems can be placed under one heading: Seriousness. Seriousness is the leading cause of everything from cancer to reincarnation.
Scientists from the Clown Academy have already discovered a new source of healing. It is a psychic energy point located between the heart chakra and the throat chakra. It is called the clown chakra.
If people are feeling miserable; if they have financial problems; if their relationship situation is the pits; if they are in ill health; if they have a need to sue people; if they find fault with their brother; then obviously their clown chakra is closed. When this happens, the scientists hav observed under a high-powered microscope that the cells of every organ display a sad face; and when the clown chakra is open and functioning normally, the cells display a happy face.
The scientists realized that if a person is ill, it is because his mind has projected guilt onto the cells of his body and forced out the love that is normally found within each cell of the body. The cells are therefore saying, "I lack Love", of "ILL" for short. The scientists also discovered that all disease is due to the fact that the cells are "out of ease" of "dis-eased".
When the clown chakra is opened and working (or rather playing) properly, the psychic mechanism sucks up misery, pain, anger, resentment, grievances, unhappiness and so on, and converts the energy into tiny red heart-shaped balloons.
The red heart balloons contain God's Love and Joy. These balloons are directed to the "dis-eased" cell or situation, and a happy face appears instantly. When the light enters the darkness, the darkness is gone.
Sometimes these red heart balloons are called endorphins, due to the fact that when anyone experiences them the feeling of separation ends, - they experience being back home with the Father and hence are no longer an orphan. This is the well known "end orphan" (endorphin) effect.
So if you think someone is attacking you, Clown Scientists recommend that you visualize sending that person red heart shaped balloons filled with God's Love and Joy.
Remember to keep your clown chakra open and remember to laugh - seriousness causes reincarnation.
Scientists from the Clown Academy have already discovered a new source of healing. It is a psychic energy point located between the heart chakra and the throat chakra. It is called the clown chakra.
If people are feeling miserable; if they have financial problems; if their relationship situation is the pits; if they are in ill health; if they have a need to sue people; if they find fault with their brother; then obviously their clown chakra is closed. When this happens, the scientists hav observed under a high-powered microscope that the cells of every organ display a sad face; and when the clown chakra is open and functioning normally, the cells display a happy face.
The scientists realized that if a person is ill, it is because his mind has projected guilt onto the cells of his body and forced out the love that is normally found within each cell of the body. The cells are therefore saying, "I lack Love", of "ILL" for short. The scientists also discovered that all disease is due to the fact that the cells are "out of ease" of "dis-eased".
When the clown chakra is opened and working (or rather playing) properly, the psychic mechanism sucks up misery, pain, anger, resentment, grievances, unhappiness and so on, and converts the energy into tiny red heart-shaped balloons.
The red heart balloons contain God's Love and Joy. These balloons are directed to the "dis-eased" cell or situation, and a happy face appears instantly. When the light enters the darkness, the darkness is gone.
Sometimes these red heart balloons are called endorphins, due to the fact that when anyone experiences them the feeling of separation ends, - they experience being back home with the Father and hence are no longer an orphan. This is the well known "end orphan" (endorphin) effect.
So if you think someone is attacking you, Clown Scientists recommend that you visualize sending that person red heart shaped balloons filled with God's Love and Joy.
Remember to keep your clown chakra open and remember to laugh - seriousness causes reincarnation.
The Seven Sealed Book
Rev. 5
"And I saw lying on the open hand of Him Who was seated on the throne a (book) scroll written within and on the back, [that infers both inside and outside]closed and sealed with seven seals.
We are the seven-sealed book of life in the hand of our God and we have life and instruction and purpose written both inside and outside of us. We have an inner kingdom and relationship with our God where the secrets of his heart are made known to us and we are coded to become an outward manifestation of this inward glory too.
And I saw a strong angel announcing in a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the scroll? And - who is entitled and is morally fit - to break its seals?
And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to take a [single] look at its contents.
And I wept bitterly because no one was found fit to open the scroll or to inspect it.
Then one of the elders [of the heavenly sanhedrin] said to me, Stop weeping! See, the LION of the tribe of Judah, the Root (Source) of David, has won - has overcome and conquered! He can open the scroll and break its SEVEN SEALS!
This is the first attribute of one who is worthy to open the seals...he is Lionlike....He is Kingly....he has authority! This first command to John was to look and see a Lion.
And there between the throne and the four living creatures (beings) and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing as though it had been slain, with SEVEN horns and SEVEN eyes, which are the SEVEN Spirits of God [that is the sevenfold Holy Spirit] Who have been sent [on duty far and wide] into all the earth.
But when John looks, what does he see? He sees a slain Lamb standing....with seven eyes and seven horns.....eyes that can penetrate into the depths of every aspect of our earth and see our pre-birth wisdom and not only see it but loosen it into resurrection life, quickening, speeding up our vibrations to a higher frequency in preparation for his full appearing in us.
He then went and took the scroll from the right hand of Him Who sat on the throne. (this throne is a mercyseat)
And when He had taken the scroll (book) the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders prostrated themselves before the Lamb....
Everything in us will bow or submit to this "breaking" of our seals.
And [now] they sing a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the scroll and to break the seals that are on it, for You were slain and with Your blood You purchased men unto God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
And You have made them a kingdom [royal race] and priests to our God, and they shall reign [as kings] over the earth!
This Lion-Lamb is our High Priest and King, the one who has the authority of a Lion, or the authority of a King, but rules with the heart of a slain Lamb....one who is of the order of Melchizedek, and Praise God, as these seals are broken in us to reveal his son, we also are able to manifest all the attributes of this Seal Breaker and become co-creators of this Lion/Lamb ministry unto the world.
*************************************
the Overcomer is the worthy one and if you happen to notice it never says overcomers, as in the plural, it always says "He who overcomes"....we become the potential "He" when our spirit is joined with his Spirit and we are made One.
"He that overcomes (is victorious), I WILL GRANT HIM to sit beside Me on My throne, as I Myself overcame and sat down beside My Father on His throne."
Why would Jesus say "I will grant"?.....because "all power both in heaven and earth has been given him"....God has divested all of Himself into his Son, or what gives expression and execution of his thoughts and intents. Jesus was the firstborn cell of this Son that overcame the Adamic death in all its forms and being raised to equal status and glory with the Father, he became the High Priest of this Corporate Body of Sons that would also through training and experience be empowered to sit with him on his throne.
We are taught in one place, that we are now seated with him in heavenly places, and here we are taught that this place is only granted to overcomers. Which is it?
Both!
He must increase.
I must decrease.
The increase of God comes by inspiration and revelation through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, that when the spirit of truth comes (the Comforter, the Baptism of the Holy Ghost experience) that he would teach you all things, and show you things to come.
We first grasp these things in the spirit, this is our increase. "Set your mind on things above". We start getting refocused in 'above thinking'.
I don't think that we are even aware of the fact of being double minded until we are awakened in God. Up until this time we just lived out of our natural mind. But when we are born of the incorruptible seed or the incorruptible word, that word begins to divide soul from spirit.....or to divide what is soulish in us from what is spirit truth in us. This, I believe, is where we have been learning to be made the overcomer.
The Overcomer is the 100 fold realm in God.
Our Passover or salvation experience makes us aware of being a member of the kingdom of God or family of God. 30 fold
Our baptism of the Holy Ghost or Pentecostal experience begins to teach us to hear his voice and be empowered to walk in the ways of the spirit. 60 fold.
And this "catching up" experience of his full appearing in a Firstfruits of the harvest people, will be what brings the complete rulership of Christ to bear in this world, which has been typified as the Feast of Tabernacles. A 100 fold demonstration of the tabernacling Life of God as King and Priest or Lion and Lamb in a Corporate Body.
This Corporate Body is the Second Coming of Christ, as Jesus was the first.
"Then suddenly there appeared with the angel an army of the troops of heaven - a heavenly knighthood - praising God and saying,
"Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace among men."
"I Jesus have sent My messenger to you to witness and to give assurance of these things for the churches. I am [both] the Root [the Source] and the Offspring of David, the radiant and brillant Morning Star.
The Holy Spirit and the Bride say, Come!"
"And I saw lying on the open hand of Him Who was seated on the throne a (book) scroll written within and on the back, [that infers both inside and outside]closed and sealed with seven seals.
We are the seven-sealed book of life in the hand of our God and we have life and instruction and purpose written both inside and outside of us. We have an inner kingdom and relationship with our God where the secrets of his heart are made known to us and we are coded to become an outward manifestation of this inward glory too.
And I saw a strong angel announcing in a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the scroll? And - who is entitled and is morally fit - to break its seals?
And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to take a [single] look at its contents.
And I wept bitterly because no one was found fit to open the scroll or to inspect it.
Then one of the elders [of the heavenly sanhedrin] said to me, Stop weeping! See, the LION of the tribe of Judah, the Root (Source) of David, has won - has overcome and conquered! He can open the scroll and break its SEVEN SEALS!
This is the first attribute of one who is worthy to open the seals...he is Lionlike....He is Kingly....he has authority! This first command to John was to look and see a Lion.
And there between the throne and the four living creatures (beings) and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing as though it had been slain, with SEVEN horns and SEVEN eyes, which are the SEVEN Spirits of God [that is the sevenfold Holy Spirit] Who have been sent [on duty far and wide] into all the earth.
But when John looks, what does he see? He sees a slain Lamb standing....with seven eyes and seven horns.....eyes that can penetrate into the depths of every aspect of our earth and see our pre-birth wisdom and not only see it but loosen it into resurrection life, quickening, speeding up our vibrations to a higher frequency in preparation for his full appearing in us.
He then went and took the scroll from the right hand of Him Who sat on the throne. (this throne is a mercyseat)
And when He had taken the scroll (book) the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders prostrated themselves before the Lamb....
Everything in us will bow or submit to this "breaking" of our seals.
And [now] they sing a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the scroll and to break the seals that are on it, for You were slain and with Your blood You purchased men unto God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
And You have made them a kingdom [royal race] and priests to our God, and they shall reign [as kings] over the earth!
This Lion-Lamb is our High Priest and King, the one who has the authority of a Lion, or the authority of a King, but rules with the heart of a slain Lamb....one who is of the order of Melchizedek, and Praise God, as these seals are broken in us to reveal his son, we also are able to manifest all the attributes of this Seal Breaker and become co-creators of this Lion/Lamb ministry unto the world.
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the Overcomer is the worthy one and if you happen to notice it never says overcomers, as in the plural, it always says "He who overcomes"....we become the potential "He" when our spirit is joined with his Spirit and we are made One.
"He that overcomes (is victorious), I WILL GRANT HIM to sit beside Me on My throne, as I Myself overcame and sat down beside My Father on His throne."
Why would Jesus say "I will grant"?.....because "all power both in heaven and earth has been given him"....God has divested all of Himself into his Son, or what gives expression and execution of his thoughts and intents. Jesus was the firstborn cell of this Son that overcame the Adamic death in all its forms and being raised to equal status and glory with the Father, he became the High Priest of this Corporate Body of Sons that would also through training and experience be empowered to sit with him on his throne.
We are taught in one place, that we are now seated with him in heavenly places, and here we are taught that this place is only granted to overcomers. Which is it?
Both!
He must increase.
I must decrease.
The increase of God comes by inspiration and revelation through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, that when the spirit of truth comes (the Comforter, the Baptism of the Holy Ghost experience) that he would teach you all things, and show you things to come.
We first grasp these things in the spirit, this is our increase. "Set your mind on things above". We start getting refocused in 'above thinking'.
I don't think that we are even aware of the fact of being double minded until we are awakened in God. Up until this time we just lived out of our natural mind. But when we are born of the incorruptible seed or the incorruptible word, that word begins to divide soul from spirit.....or to divide what is soulish in us from what is spirit truth in us. This, I believe, is where we have been learning to be made the overcomer.
The Overcomer is the 100 fold realm in God.
Our Passover or salvation experience makes us aware of being a member of the kingdom of God or family of God. 30 fold
Our baptism of the Holy Ghost or Pentecostal experience begins to teach us to hear his voice and be empowered to walk in the ways of the spirit. 60 fold.
And this "catching up" experience of his full appearing in a Firstfruits of the harvest people, will be what brings the complete rulership of Christ to bear in this world, which has been typified as the Feast of Tabernacles. A 100 fold demonstration of the tabernacling Life of God as King and Priest or Lion and Lamb in a Corporate Body.
This Corporate Body is the Second Coming of Christ, as Jesus was the first.
"Then suddenly there appeared with the angel an army of the troops of heaven - a heavenly knighthood - praising God and saying,
"Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace among men."
"I Jesus have sent My messenger to you to witness and to give assurance of these things for the churches. I am [both] the Root [the Source] and the Offspring of David, the radiant and brillant Morning Star.
The Holy Spirit and the Bride say, Come!"
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