Mortal vs. Immortal

Someone asked some questions about putting on immortality and if our mortal was to be incorporated in this act.

I am posting this as a new thread as we seemed to be taking on a new theme of immortality in the other one on sickness.

Just for the short answer: mortal is a word for death....death-ridden, so no, I don't believe that death will have any part in our immortal beings.

Now for anyone to truly know everything there is to know about immortality of the body (not speaking of the spirit and soul) their mortal would have to be demonstrating what Jesus body in the resurrection was capable of. Mine isn't, so I can only speak what little I know, by revelation, not by experience.

I know that there have been catchings up into this dimension....there have been many spiritual spies that have spied out the land, as it were, and came back with glowing reports. I believe it is by faith we are now beholding Him, as He is being unveiled in our understandings, for He is who I Am in these fully realized dimensions. But as bodies walking this out in the earth, I believe we are occupying [holding the vision] in this realm until that coming in fullness is realized in our earth as it is in our heaven. This is the DE-scension of Christ INTO the flesh as opposed to just coming IN us as a hope as he did in Pentecost....our hope of glory. In other words, the hope is to be realized. The Glory of the Lord, fills or floods the temple(our bodies) as it did when Solomon's temple was dedicated and no man could stand to minister. Nothing of the flesh or death-ridden man will be left standing.

Every apostle taught and looked for a greater appearing or coming of the Lord.....all these admonitons were issued AFTER his coming at Pentecost. One of them assures us that he is coming to be glorified in his saints.

His coming at Pentecost, I believe, brought to his body the realization of Christ IN YOU, our hope of glory. Jesus prior to his death and resurrection, said, that it was his Father IN HIM that did the works. He knew it was not in his flesh man where the power resided.

Prior to his resurrection, in John 17, he requests to be glorified with his Fathers very own Self which suggests that prior to this time he was not glorified, but was walking as an anointed man.

What always has thrilled my heart is that I believe that the reason that Jesus did not pour out the gift of the Holy Spirit while walking as a man, was because he was not going reproduce himself as just more human bodies to be anointed, but would anoint us from the Highest Glories and pour out of his Spirit as a foretaste and downpayment of the highest dimensions that would produce for him a spiritual heritage that would be brought up to live from this glory. Through this first installment of glory or anointing we would begin to be taught of his ways and empowered to take up our cross and follow him all the way....all the way into the full realization of immortal life, spirit, soul and body.

(will try to share more about mortal vs. immortal later)...perhaps others have more insight to share with us too.

Grace and Glory to all!
Karen

Question was posed - Do you suppose that there will come a time when some of us will experience that immortality, that glorification and not die, because the Life filling us will swallow it up?

"The life filling us will swallow it up" Amen..When you plant a seed in the earth... that seed has to die to release the life germ that it has held within itself. Just so, the seed of life, the Christ planted in us is causing our old man, or shell or husk to die, in order that the full potential of life held in this seed can bloom into full expression bringing life to not only our soul or mind but our bodies as well, as I see it.

Joyful...what do you think that the word teaches in that regard? What do you think chapter 15 in 1Cor. is teaching us?

Quote: "The sect of the Pharisees, which Paul had been part of, taught and believed in the resurrection but Paul attempts to prove it by showing that there was one who demonstrated it, namely Jesus. And he went so far as to say to the Corinthian church, if they couldn't believe this, then their faith was devoid of truth and was just empty, imaginary and fruitless.

The Saducees denied there being any resurrection and took the Greek view that all matter was evil so it was a good thing to die and get rid of this evil body so we could obtain a spiritual one.

Rom. 5:12


12 Therefore just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, ON WHICH [eph ho] all sin.


Quote:
"We were not guilty of Adam's sin, but because he was the federal head of the human family, his sins were imputed to us making us legally guilty. So we received his penalty which was death....or being born mortal before any of us sinned. Man does not sin because he is born in sin, he sins because he has death in him. It causes man to be morally weak, or sick. [this mortality, manifests in our souls or minds, and in our bodies before we are resurrected in Christ]



The point is that Adam's transgression was reversed in Christ, whose righteousness and righteous act on the cross brought life to all of creation. Both acts were done outside of ourselves, not by our will. Likewise, even as we all shared in the consequences of Adam's sin before our wills had been formed, so also do we all share in the salvation brought about by Christ's righteous act, which was done apart from our wills. Just as Adam's sin resulted in every man's death, so also Christ's righteous act resulted in every man being given life in the end.

The only caveat given in 1 Cor. 15:23 is this: "but every man in his own order." Not all will appropriate immortality at the same time.

When Adam sinned, he and his wife and children were sold to pay the debt that he could not pay. In fact, his entire estate was sold to pay his debt, and it was still insufficient to pay the debt. Jesus spoke of this in a parable in Matt. 18:25,

25 But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children AND ALL THAT HE HAD, and repayment to be made.

Jesus came as the last Adam to reverse the curse and pay the full debt that Adam could not pay. In doing so, He redeemed not only Adam, but his wife and children (descendants) and the entire estate (the creation). Everything that was lost in Adam is redeemed in Christ. Hence, 1 John 2:2 says,

2 and He Himself is the propitiation [covering] for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." Unquote

"Christ the Messiah is the first fruits, then those who are Christ's own will be resurrected at His coming.

After that comes the end (the completion) when He delivers over the kingdom to God the Father after rendering inoperative and abolishing every other rule and every authority and power.

For Christ must be King and reign until He has put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy to be subdued and abolished is death."

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The following a comment made by Grace: I hesitated to put in my two cents, but I believe the scriptures teach the truth of coming into immortality without going by way of the grave. Rather than give my opinion, I will call to mind the scriptures that, to me, are very plain. Paul said "Behold I show you a mystery (a sacred secret). We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment ( en atomos - in atoms)in the twinkling of an eye (the upward sweeping motion of the eye, meaning seeing in a higher dimension), at the last trump (aren't we hearing a message, a trumpet ? Paul said the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. HOW can this take place?)
BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MINDS.
Be ye transformed , changed (metamorphoo- that which happens to a caterpillar to turn it into a butterfly.
A powerful scripture relates to incorruptibility and immortality. 1 Cor. 15;:51-54, When this corruptible shall have put on incorruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying, Death is swallowed up in victory. That ties in with scriptures that talk about men of corrupt minds...so it seems corruption is in our minds. Be ye transformed (metamorphoo- that which happens to a caterpillar to turn it into a butterfly)
BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MINDS.

For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Jesus said at the raising of Lazarus from the dead,
Whosoever believeth in me,though he were dead,(has died) yet shall he live, and
whosoever liveth (has not died)and believeth in (into) me shall never (in no wise) die. Then he ask Martha if she believed what he said and she didn't understand. She said Yea Lord, I know that you are the Christ....) She did not comprehend what Jesus was saying, just like us today.
If death is the last enemy and Jesus defeated all our enemies, then who is going to believe that He conquered death?

Living and believing seemed to be the requirement that Jesus himself put coming into immortality. I repeat his words, "Whosoever liveth and believeth in (eis - into) me shall never die. Believeth thou this?" I ask myself, Do I believe this? I think we are afraid to believe...It has never happened except to Enoch and Elijah, why do I think it could happen to me? Why do we cry at funerals? Death has claimed another one. If we think we will be better off in some "heaven" why is death called an enemy and why are we sad at their passing?
Then we say, Bro. So and So believed in NEVER DIE and he died. Did he believe into it or did he believe the doctrine? I do not want to die and go to heaven. I want to live and see every enemy of Christ conquered in me. Hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I want to see everything we inherited from Adam canceled in me you and the total victory of our Lord Jesus Christ be manifested in a people.
Perhaps there is a time element involved, I don't know. I think that the concept of a literal heaven off somewhere in the sky was so deep rooted in us that we couldn't understand, just like Martha. But the eyes of our understanding are being opened and as we continue to hear the truth within ourselves, somebody will break that barrier. Just like when the 4 minute mile was accomplished...after everybody believing it couldn't be done, many others broke it also. Jesus conquered death...who will be next?

From what I gather from the scriptures, the barriers are in the mind. If we are transformed by the renewing of the mind, what are the barriers in the mind that keep us in corruptibility and mortality? Death was the consequence of Adam's sin, the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. One barrier is double mindedness, double vision, (if thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light). I realize that physical death is the result of living in the realm of the Adamic man. But, as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive. If the first part of that is true, why not the last part? Are we in Christ? I believe that just as I was in Adam when he sinned, I was in Christ when he conquered the whole Adamic realm. Some say there is no process...then perhaps progress is a better word.

Jesus Christ is now my life. I have no right to claim anything else. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things have passed away and all things are becoming new.

I think the following is a pretty good word on immortality, Joyfulheart....I will share the link with you if you care to read it when you have time. After all, we can't talk about immortality without talking about Jesus our pattern and what an excellent example he was, not just to us, but for us.

You know, there have been some good people that may have laid there lives down for others before, as we know that Jesus surely did for the world, for Jesus died to his heavenly glory to become flesh for it was man that was given dominion in the earth in the beginning and fell from his glory, so Jesus became man to regain the dominion and glory in this earth and to bring mankind into immortality, which would give man authority BOTH in heaven and on earth....a state from which man would never again fall. I don't see where any other cultural or spiritual teacher was able to cancel death and bring all of creation into life and immortality even though they may have been cultural spiritual teachers....they are all dead themselves.

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/coldfusion/Chapter.cfm?CID=73

The following was my response made to someone who said they believed the Bible was written primarily for just the Jews and our belief in Jesus as the only Christ fails to recognize all the other "christs" which makes Christianity exclusionary or devisive.
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I, for one don't see the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as exclusionary, but, quite the opposite, as completely inclusive. This is a Love that includes all of humanity, yea, all creation.

I see Jesus as a universal reference being, not just to the Jews, but to all mankind. And in his glorification he became a Life-giving Spirit to all....the collective consciousness of all was pierced and penetrated by the realized truth of a man that conquered death or is exempt from every kind of death in all its forms and acquired the keys of hell and death:

1 Tim 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honor and power everlasting. Amen.

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 6:33
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

"In the same way that sin and death entered the world through one man, so one man's act of righteousness leads to right standing with God. So that as sin reigned in death, so grace might now reign by righteous which issues in eternal life through Jesus Christ, the, Anointed One, our Lord." Rom. 5

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"There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification." 1 Cor. 14

I believe there have been many different cultural spiritual teachers, other voices....teachers given to certain cultures that had spiritual truths to teach and followers that followed their teachings. I don't think we have to belittle whatever part many of them had to play in the plan of God, but I don't think it is a disservice to point out that they will not be able to bring you any higher than what they attained to even though they may have taught about it. You cannot give what you do not have to give.

But since this thread is about coming into physical immortality, the one that has been universally known to come into immortality and to attain to a level that exceeded his predecessors was Jesus, the Christ. He broke through all the limitations of death; spirit, soul and body.

I, personally, don't believe that Elijah or Enoch, even though they didn't see physical death, attained to the level of life and immortality that Jesus did, because:

"And so you can know and understand what is the immeasurable, unlimited, and surpassing greatness of His power and in the working of his mighty strength.

Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His own right hand in the heavenly.

Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named - above every title that can be conferred- not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and world to come.

And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme head of the church..." Eph. 1

"[But he ascended?] Now what can this, He ascended, mean but that He had previously descended from the height of heaven into the depth, the lower parts of the earth?
(The lower parts of the earth....what would be the lowest depth of our earth? "the heart is desperately wicked, above all things, who can know it? He descended into the lowest hell of man)

He who descended is the very same as He who also has ascended high above all the heavens, that He [His Presence} might fill all things, the whole universe, from the lowest to the highest." Eph. 4

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Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama died and was cremated and his ashes were divided among five kings and his relics buried and pilgrimages are made to these sites.

Lao Tzu, believed author of the Tao ti Ching lived and died about 600 BC:
"Surprisingly enough, a story from Chuang-tzu still offers us details about Lao-tzu's death. The funerals of the master are described here, with many grieving disciples."

Confucius, famous Chinese philosopher died around 479 B.C

Muhammad founder of Islam, died June 8, 632 after Christ.

Just sharing these few to make a point about only being able to give what you have attained, not to disparage them as cultural teachers.

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At this time, although I may be mistaken, I don't think that immortality of the physical comes piecemeal, in other words, in first this one, and then in that one individually. I believe this resurrection into immortality is to be a corporate event just as it was on Pentecost. Jesus' return in the spirit manifested as a corporate event on a historical day. I see that likened unto breaking the sound barrier. (the sound of a rushing, mighty wind)

Once this truth was realized by a body of people, it opened the door for all to partake of this truth. So, if that serves as a pattern, then I see the corporate coming of the Lord in fullness, redeeming us into full salvation.... spirit, soul, and body to be a historical event that this time breaks the "light" barrier. It is accomplished in a people all together at once....and this people will no longer have their light hidden under the bushel of matter....just having the treasure in an earthen vessel. This vessel will be swallowed up in the Light of God. Our mortal, dying bodies are quickened and speeded up to the frequency of light that our head, Jesus has attained. (Equal immortality unto the kind of light that no man[carnal man] can approach) \o/

Grace, I just got on line this morning and saw your question. I really can't give a specific scripture about a group happening as you inquired about, that's why I added that I may be mistaken. I just have pondered on some of these things. We know that the scriptures speak of the birth of a Manchild into this earth....which of course, implies this birth is a fullgrown matured one, a man, not a baby.

That then leads me to ponder on how does any natural birth happen. Is it in piecemeal fashion? Is one arm born at one time and then at another time a foot, until all the parts are born?...and then they get put together? Well, I do see this formation taking place but not on the outside of the womb....but on the inside, during gestation.

The womb of time, has been our growing place...our gestation while growing and being formed in Christ, but I can see how that the birth would appear to me, at least in my present understanding, to be the emergence of a fully formed, fully connected child, or in this case, a fullgrown Man/child.

Not sharing absolutes here....just some of my ponderings.

In Genesis where it says God's days begin in the darkness and end in the light. ["the evening and the morning was the first day"] I see a pattern in that. I believe all creation while being formed into the Man in God's image that he declared in the beginning was his aim, that all creation has been in formation or gestation in the womb of time. All natural life begins in the darkness of the womb prior to mother finally delivering her fully formed child out into the light of day.

As I said, just some of my ponderings. Thank you for your thoughts too. And I too, believe that immortality already dwells within us...the immortal one lives in our earthen vessels, and the promise is that the glory of the Lord will cover all the earth...all of our earthen vessel. \o/

Until there is an understanding, which is outlined in the OT about the sacrifice of the two goats and the two doves, I believe there will be a misperception about the plan of God and our part in its fulfillment.

One sacrifice died literally, the other became the "living" sacrifice, in other words, the second one does not need to die literally...that was accomplished in the 1st sacrifice. (One died for all)

Once the veil has been penetrated - once the hymen has been broken, the way is opened - sorry for being graphic, but it just fits. Jesus was the last of the one man saviors, a friend of mine likes to say, but I would carry that one step further, he was the first and the last of the "one man saviors". He died once for all, there was no more need for a literal death sacrifice. That leaves the "living sacrifice" - US! We die too, but it is while we are walking around on two feet, as the living sacrifice. We die out to the corruption and unbelief of our minds.

Just listen a moment of how the resurrected Jesus spoke to the two brothers who were on their way to Emmaus and see if any of our conversations here sound somewhat similar:

Luke 24
"And while they were conversing and discussing together, Jesus Himself caught up with them and was already accompanying them.

But their eyes were held, so that they did not recognize Him.

And He said to them, What is this discussion that you are exchanging (throwing back and forth) between you as you walk along?

And [Jesus] said to them, O foolish ones and (sluggish in mind, dull of perception) - to adhere to and trust in EVERYTHING THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN!

THEN BEGINNING WITH MOSES, AND THROUGHOUT ALL THE PROPHETS, HE WENT ON EXPLAINING AND INTERPRETING TO THEM IN ALL THE SCRIPTURES THE THINGS CONCERNING AND REFERRING TO HIMSELF.

When their eyes were opened and they (clearly) recognized Him; He vanished.

And they said to one another, Was not our heart greatly moved and burning within us while He was talking with us on the road and AS HE OPENED AND EXPLAINED TO US THE SENSE OF THE SCRIPTURES.

A little later after returning to Jerusalem and meeting up with the eleven [apostles], Jesus appeared among them again and one of the things that he reiterated again was this:

"Then He said to them, This is what I told you while I was with you, that everything which is written concerning Me in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms MUST BE FULFILLED.

Then He (thoroughly) opened up their minds to understand the Scriptures.

"Leviticus 14 and 16, the two birds used in cleansing the leper, and the two goats of the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). These two passages embody the laws regarding the two works of Christ.

As we will show, leprosy depicts our mortality, which we inherited from Adam, even as Paul says in Romans 5:12, “and so death spread to all men.” The two birds were used to cleanse lepers—that is, the two birds depict the two stages by which we are cleansed of mortality. The first bird was killed to provide a blood covering for the second bird. The first bird’s death imputed life to us, while the second bird, when released into the “field” (i.e., the world), will infuse us with inherent immortality and life.

As for the two goats in the ritual of the Day of Atonement, these deal not with the death question, but rather the sin question. Again, there are two stages by which our sin is eradicated. The first goat covered our sin; the second will remove it. We will show that the first goat (Christ) was killed in order to atone for (cover) our sin by His blood. The second goat was different in that it removed all sin to a land not inhabited. This shows us that the second coming of Christ will accomplish the removal of sin from our bodies." [my comment: this is the birth of the Manchild in us, the full-measure anointing - this is the child that is born in us through the union of a renewed soul and spirit as all corruption or death in our minds is put under foot.]

Now for all those who will say that we are already complete IN HIM...yes, absolutely, but do we not see that he desires to be made complete IN US as well.